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Post by feralmet on Aug 1, 2006 13:38:13 GMT
On 11th July, Dr Samsam Bakhtiari (Iranian oil "metallurgist") addressed the Australian Senate committee on the future of oil. He dished it out to them in grand style. PDF of Hansard (330 kb) here: www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/commttee/S9515.pdfWho amongst us has not encountered similar confrontations with a clueless board of directors? I think that the two essential elements of extractive metallurgy are a fine regard for the laws of diminishing returns, and an appreciation of the natural laws of abundance. Indeed my own initiation into the black arts required the un-learning of so many pre-conceived notions. Mining is where the human confection of monetary economics meets the hard reality of nature's economics. When this forum was created I had intended to submit yarns and ideas, but lately I find myself transfixed by the "metallurgy" of the oil industry. Luckily I have a good Internet connection and loads of free time. It dawned upon me that the great abundance of gasoline and diesel that I have wallowed in for my lifetime, was never more than the "spare" energy left over after extraction and processing. I suspect that we may have overconsumed the best quality "easy" oil deposits (leave Iraq out of it for now). If that is so, then poorer quality oils will contain more dross and less energy (tar-sand is an extreme example). At the same time, such oils require more energy to be traded back for extraction and processing. Even the transportation of low quality oil may have ramifications (think of trucking low-grade ore). It follows that as oil quality diminishes, more oil must be pumped and the scale of refining must increase just to maintain a steady output of fuel. Yet we may be encountering this phenomenon during a period of increased demand for fuel. So what I am trying to say is, have we reached "peak" gasoline and diesel? There are many forums on the web that deal with peak oil, but none where I can discuss the metallurgy of embodied energy. Are there any kindred spirits out there?  |
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barr
New Member
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Post by barr on Aug 3, 2006 4:20:07 GMT
The science of peak oil - like that of climate change - is probably irrelevant. Politics rules both issues. The (P)political reality is that change is now required to address both issues, irrespective of whether "peak oil" and "tipping point" have actually been reached or not.
This a potentially contentious statement, but one that is substantively true. Fortunately, we can review the same science and technologies for addressing both oil depletion and climate change increase, and involve mining and mineral processing, which are inextricably involved in both.
Mineral processing is the biggest energy user in the mining cycle although the embodiment of energy in some smelting products, most extremely in aluminium, is very high.
An obvious analogy with oil - as described by "feralmet" - is that bigger, open pits are currently being dug to maintain metal production (relative to increasing population) from ever decreasing ore grades. Ironically, the mine of the future could use oil techniques of horizontal drilling, with fracture propagation, to allow insitu leaching instead. The question is whether in place leaching will give the expected massive energy benefits of avoiding (deep) mining and comminution. This has to be balanced by environmental concerns of how leaky such reservoirs might be, although there would be no tailings and a massively reduced footprint.
A double irony is that perhaps efficient mineral processing in return can be used as the front end in oil sands treatment, making oil extraction cost (and energy?) efficient from that source.
In general - getting back to the point - addressing the embodied energy of metallurgy, and its environmental impacts, as good a starting point as any would be the programme for the Material, Minerals and Metals Ecology '06 conference (this same website) and make appropriate contacts from there.
The major applicable tools for energy mass balances and their impacts are Life Cycle Assessment and, the in some ways better, Life Cycle Costs. For LCA, the centre of excellence is debatably Stuttgart University, together with PE Europe. For Life Cycle Costs, Prof Petrie's group at Sydney is the obvious strating point. Both groups are presenting at MMME, including on the environmental impacts of metal cycles, such as Cu. Allied work is being done by Jan Cilliers at Imperial (UK) looking at the (hidden and environmental) costs of Cu smelting slags. Slags are a material not produced by hydrometallurgy, which at scale is not as energy (cost) efficient as smelting - despite the hype - but does not have the same suite of waste outputs (and opportunities arising).
A word of cation is required however in that the academic language used (with reference to this general LCA/energy area) can be less than user friendly. One practical outcome, demonstarted in Australia, is the Mine to Mill programme. By better integrating the unit operations, with eg selective block mining, more directed blasting, and efficient mill operation, it is possible to reduce ore dillution, have a more uniform blast size, and hence reduce mill wastage (tails) and energy use in subsequent processing. Less energy means less embodiment.
A more lateral way to address energy use is to use renewables, such as biodiesel. The problem arises as to where this material is sourced from. On a LCA basis, by far the best is used oil from your local chip shop. Or, in Australia, use imported palm oil. Trouble is, if you use palm oil, Friends of the Earth will hunt you as the major (planned) plantations in Malaysia and Indonesia involve wiping out local biodiversity. The alternative gripe is that if you grow energy crops you will be displacing food crops. There is a no win-no win situation brewing, and peak oil is but a part of that.
The issue is as much one of energy efficiency as it is of the source of the energy. And that's where it gets complicated, because gasoline and diesel are good energy carriers, as transport fuels, but we won't get into that. What this all means in reality is that mineral processors (or miners) can no longer think of their unit operations in isolation of the full mining process, never mind the larger dynamic of which industrial ecology is but a part. But, until some of this can be monetised - in a way that can be put before a board of directors - change is going to be slow.
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Post by wildbill on Jan 8, 2007 19:49:49 GMT
Dear barr and ferrelmet,
It's already happening. PD has acquired interest in Tenke Fungarume. The reason is
obvious.
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Post by wildbill on Mar 21, 2007 17:43:27 GMT
To the organizational politicians,
Do type "peak oil" in the news catagory of google and see what you get. Cantarell,Ghawar
North Sea fields, and other majors are indicated in decline. The rumor mill country club type connections won't do you any good this time. You will have to perform.
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Post by wildbill on Jul 24, 2007 14:30:05 GMT
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Post by wildbill on Nov 5, 2007 19:39:36 GMT
Dear Readers, A poster at theoildrum.com made interesting sustainability comments on the following url: anz.theoildrum.com/node/3177#moreGood luck with your "careers." Wild Bill |
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Post by feralmet on Nov 14, 2007 8:57:02 GMT
Hey Wild Bill.... wait for me! Ah mate - memories of my childhood, when the world was much simpler and pyrometallurgy was something you experimented with on Guy Fawkes night. I'm glad you are keeping this topic alive as it is dear to my heart. With nothing more constructive to do, I made my first ever YouTube presentations in honour of the coming Australian Federal Election: www.youtube.com/watch?v=O76L4rHX-IAau.youtube.com/watch?v=asE3Qusc6qQHope you enjoy that Bill. I was hoping to win the Palme D'Or, but my wife says I'll be lucky to receive the dunny door. BTW, the reference to the donut and the hole (in the video) is clarified here: www.unknownnews.net/040712a-fm.htmlCheers mate..... Chris |
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Post by wildbill on Jul 18, 2008 23:53:13 GMT
Dear Ferrelmet and others,
you may contact me. Wild Bill
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Post by wildbill on Jul 9, 2009 13:46:56 GMT
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Post by zero12 on Dec 21, 2013 18:08:32 GMT
Thank you very much for useful information.
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